Curse

Brute of Balthazar · Aug 10, 2009, 03:02 PM // 15:02

I haven't searched to see if any related threads cover similar grounds, but i figured it's a fairly valid point (you're at liberty to disagree) << and on that note if you think what i'm saying is obselete and would be wasting anets times then simply don't comment. This is just my feelings on the issue, i'm sure not everyone else feels the same.

But i remember back when traps were actually fairly decent, the good old days where UW was 4/5 rangers making things explode in a spectacular eruption from the floor, and I ask, what happened to that? If UW is too biased towards other classes, why not bring back what rangers used to have. And that's not to say that rangers cant farm UW, but to me trapping was quite fun. Whether you enjoy it or find it tedious is beside the point, but it was something different.

Now i know that traps actually haven't received a hit, but in fact some have been buffed, but i feel the hit to EW a while back was unecessary, and though it may only have been a minority of us farming stygians, i feel we were over looked. And not just stygians, but EW allowed the dust trap spam to have other uses to, and actually make trapping a viable (to an extent) method of farming.

All i'm asking is that perhaps traps get a pve only re-work? make them slightly more powerful, I feel personally, that although the pet buff was welcome, pets still aren't great and overall it was a pretty weak update that in my opinion was a half hearted attempt on anets part... I mean it's hardly diversified the game (yay for monks running armour of sanctity in RA

) and if that's too much effort, then maybe just pve split EW and make the duration slightly longer, i mean surely that couldn't take too long right? increase numbers from 1 digit to 2, now i'm no game designer but still. But I do understand, anet are REALLY busy pushing as much as they can to release GW2 3 years ago.

Any way this is turning into a rant, when really all i wanted to voice was my opinion on traps. So if you feel similarly or differently for that matter then I'm interested to hear. And if you think this is just a deluded dream then feel free not to comment (or at least be nice)

Fate Crusher · Aug 10, 2009, 04:03 PM // 16:03

/agree!!!!!!!

Trapping is/was way too much fun and i would also like to see them come back to high-end PvE (even if they can be integrated with current builds, such as throwing a trap).

But i don't think it would make sense for Anet to buff traps or even revert EW. with every update they come with developer notes, justifying why they made such updates, and so i can't see the developers saying "We think the community could use traps now as a viable and fun way to farm!" ....

Because in essence Anet is against farming. so updates to buff farming builds have never happened. (SF is a different story! lol)

Eddie Frenzy Spam · Aug 10, 2009, 04:22 PM // 16:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brute of Balthazar

and on that note if you think what i'm saying is obselete and would be wasting anets times then simply don't comment. This is just my feelings on the issue, i'm sure not everyone else feels the same.

What a rediculous thing to say. In order to weigh up both the merits and disadvantages of such a change you need to hear both sides of the arguement, the arguement for those who think it would be beneficial to the game and the arguements from those who think it would be bad for the game, each giving reasons to support their view point.

Only then can you sum up whether the change is worth Anets time to implement and if it would be largely beneficial.

Asking people who think it's a bad idea to simply "not post" is proposterous, the thread will then be filled with a one sided arguement from people who are biased towards the change and thus presents an unfair representation of the idea and it's impact on the game.

Having said that, I really don't see why traps couldn't be brought back to previous power. PvE is already "loleasy", with a lot of skills being very OP plus the addition of Consumable. One more OP set of skills can't do much harm, balanced is already ruined in PvE.

Lishy · Aug 10, 2009, 04:34 PM // 16:34

Anet should buff traps. It would make uwsc's mtns trail harder and bring back a fun build.
It can't be that bad. I mean, range is redundant in pve now.

Daisuko · Aug 10, 2009, 04:53 PM // 16:53

The thing is, the majority of players, that is people who aren't you, don't like trapping because it's slow, mainly. And it's not that you can't trap things anymore, it's just that there are far more effective ways to do things (and there always have been, trapping has just been an alternative method)

For example, Urgoz's Warren. Even when Trapway Urgoz was fairly prevalent (30~40% of groups running it) it was still a bad choice, because it was far slower. Doing Urgoz by means of trappers took 3~5 hours. Conversely, doing it splinter/barrage (back then, the other commonly run build) was considerably faster, at only 1.5~3 hours.

Even if Anet buffed traps, I still don't see any reason to USE them... The only possible use for traps in current PvE scenarios would be using traps to knockdown mobs that you've pulled through another person. I.E. tank A pulls through tank B, but tank B has traps under him to knock down the mob so they can't scatter.

The problem with this, is that Spike Trap, for example, triggers 2 times, but the second time while they're already knocked down, thus wasting a possible knockdown. You can, however, use say... Tripwire, to lay one first, then lay another right as they get knocked down to knock-lock the group for ~4 seconds. The problem with this, however, is that you could accomplish the same effect with deep freeze and/or earthquake, making the need for traps pretty pointless (plus you should kill them before AoE scatter triggers anyway)

Targren · Aug 10, 2009, 06:42 PM // 18:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fate Crusher

Because in essence Anet is against farming. so updates to buff farming builds have never happened. (SF is a different story! lol)

I'm pretty sure Nicholas proves that's not the case...

I do so love trapping tho... Makes my heart smile to see baddies asplode so wonderfully at the hands of my ranger...

gremlin · Aug 10, 2009, 07:11 PM // 19:11

Well they buffed the pets which I never thought would happen.
Having a rethink on traps would also be a good step and I hope it happens soon.

Trapping is one of the few human related activities as its almost impossible to run hero trappers imo.
I am also of the opinion that all skills in the game should be usable if they are going to make any skills unworkable then simply remove them and replace them with others.

Also want a ranger skill to detect and or remove traps.

Pistachio · Aug 10, 2009, 07:57 PM // 19:57

It's sad to see things like trapping, which is a truly creative gameplay element, go by the wayside. I remember getting my spider with a trapping team, and now those kinds of runs have been pushed aside by less creative, more efficient, and exploitable techniques.

Fay Vert · Aug 10, 2009, 08:10 PM // 20:10

THe worst thing to happen to traps was the loot nerf. The nerf was not implemented by team size but by rate of kill so traps suffer the maximum impact of the nerf. The only exception is trapping for drops like ectos and gems which are unaffected.

But yes, what they did to EW was ultimate stupidity by ANerf. It wasn't just traps that it hit, EW was a useful skill which they removed from the game, much to the games detriment. Utter stupid UNbalance.

Tenebrae · Aug 10, 2009, 08:53 PM // 20:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fay Vert

But yes, what they did to EW was ultimate stupidity by ANerf. It wasn't just traps that it hit, EW was a useful skill which they removed from the game, much to the games detriment. Utter stupid UNbalance.

Nerf bat hits hard , i wonder if someday anet is gonna put those destroyed skills again on the "worth using" market.

Ugh · Aug 10, 2009, 09:09 PM // 21:09

I agree with a trapping buff. Their only real use is farming, but they are slow and outdone by many other builds.

The few advantages to traps are strongly outweighed by the disadvantages:

Good Stuff:
-AoE conditions/KD
-Can be set ahead of time

Bad Stuff:
-High energy costs
-Long recharge times
-Long casting times
-Bad damage
-Easily interruptable

Some skill changes would be a nice way to make them viable. (for both PvP and PvE)

All Traps
Either increase all damage or make all damage armor-ignoring. Reduce premature activation (lol) time to 60 seconds. Currently, traps aren't worth the time and effort. These changes would make trapping faster without being able to kill everything with craploads of traps.

EotN Traps
Make them affected by Expertise. Change Expertise to:
For each rank of Expertise, the Energy cost of all of your attacks, Rituals, touch skills, Traps and Ranger skills are decreased by 4%.

Piercing Trap
Cracked Armor is useless. Lower the conditional damage and change it to trigger on knocked down foes. This gives it good synergy with Spike and Tripwire.

Trapper's Focus {E}
5e 0c 20r
Elite Stance. (30 seconds.) Your traps and nature rituals recharge 25...37...40% faster and activate 25...37...40% faster.
Makes it an elite version of Trapper's Speed. In its current state, TF's not really worth taking it over Spike.

MisterB · Aug 10, 2009, 09:15 PM // 21:15

Energizing Wind is not needed to solo trap effectively. Trapping was nerfed by loot scaling, like Fay Vert said. It's still a viable alternative for UW and Stygian Veil. It's just slow, and it always has been. There are faster alternatives, but you can still kill anything with traps that the old triple dust QZ/EW build could do.

Player perception of the EW nerf and much faster alternatives available is what has changed. Traps have not decreased in power. They simply have too many limitations compared to other skills to be anything more than niche skills.

Brute of Balthazar · Aug 10, 2009, 09:59 PM // 21:59

Well I'm glad other people feel the same as I do about the issue. I understand that traps are pretty much useless in almost all combat scenarios, and people aren't realistically going to take you into a team as a trapper, which as MisterB said does make trapping pretty niche. But what i merely meant was I'd sure love to see a trapping team for once in a while in ToA... would that not be a nice change for the better? i mean a few less sins and a few more rangers.... the word I think is diversity, which most Elite areas severely lack. And though I myself do run UWSC as a sin, i'd be more than happy to do something as aforementioned, a little more creative. And in my opinion fun.

And in response to eddie, yeah ok I realise that was a kinda stupid thing to ask, but I didn't mean to imply a complete censor of anything bad against trapping. You're perfectly welcome to your opinion, and feel free to post it. I simply meant keep it constructive please. I of all people don't like flaming threads which descend into pointless arguements.

But that aside, i'm glad to see i've got a little support.

And with regards to what Fay said.... that is a point, making everything explode at once isn't great for drops ever since anet decided killing lots of things at once should actually cost you money

unienaule · Aug 12, 2009, 06:14 PM // 18:14

You know, they did decrease Ritualist spirit cast time for PvE... wink wink nudge nudge

Teysar kitait · Aug 12, 2009, 07:52 PM // 19:52

I remember some trapping i did years ago when people farmed trolls

but i never really did it any other time - what i did was fun though, and i think it would be a nice idea if it came back, rangers seem to have very little that they can farm these days.

just my thoughts.

Lourens · Aug 15, 2009, 07:55 PM // 19:55

I never really liked trapping takes way to much time to set them up and they aren't really useful in general groups only time I found a trap handy was in the good old days when I was doing tomb of primeval kings with b/p team saving the day with a dust trap =D

Quaker · Aug 16, 2009, 02:39 PM // 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daisuko

The thing is, the majority of players, that is people who aren't you, don't like trapping because it's slow, mainly. And it's not that you can't trap things anymore, it's just that there are far more effective ways to do things (and there always have been, trapping has just been an alternative method)

This pretty well sums it up.

To add to that, I would point out that many people are reminiscing about the good-old-days when trapping groups would do UW, etc. Well, there's nothing stopping you from still trapping in UW (for example), but because there are so many other ways to do it, and because people are spread out over more area now, and a few other reasons, you won't find very many people trying to get a trapping PUG together these days.
But that doesn't mean you can't trap just the way you used to, it just means it's harder to find a group. If you really want to go trapping, find yourself a few like minded people and form a group. You could perhaps even post in the Ranger forum and try to get together with others to arrange a time, or form a Trapper sub-guild, or maybe even a Trapper Guild.

At any rate, at this point in GW evolution, I doubt that anything ANet would change would bring trapping back to popularity. It's up to you to find your own way.

Darkpower Alchemist · Aug 20, 2009, 12:22 AM // 00:22

Trapping was, and still can be fun. Yet, Quaker hit the nail on the head. Trapping is by preference and it's time consuming. I don't even think the skills are the point of contention, but the fact that trapping takes a major time investment. I recently went trapping in JQ just for kicks. If you could see the response to people dying on the way out of the portal due to me trapping the holy heck out of it...someone broke a keyboard that day, for certain!

FYI, trapping is fun and effective when used in a group or as defensive measures. The Master Ranger can trap anything, anywhere, anytime. It's a great play style to learn.

Mr Emu · Aug 20, 2009, 12:46 AM // 00:46

if 1 trapper could consistently kill HM enemies, trapping could be effective in SCs with teams of 1 perma and 1 trapper. Perma aggros while trapper traps, perma pulls over, enemies die. Times 4. Each team can kill anything that cant kill a perma. Alternatively, solo trappers could function for some areas. I would reccommend 1 sec cast times, along with slightly reduced cost and recharge (possible trappers focus buff). Yes, it would be overpowered. Does anybody give a shit? Nope.

Marverick · Aug 20, 2009, 12:50 AM // 00:50

Hmmm idea for traps... you "precast" traps, and each time you precast a trap it shows up in a "trap inventory," which can hold up to 10 traps. Every time you click on a trap in the inventory, it drops at your location.